Dragon Ball Competitive
Welcome to Dragon Ball Competitive, your source for your DBZ metagaming!

You are currently not logged in to the forums. To post on the forums, you must login to an existing account. If you have not registered an account yet, please do so. It's very simple and only takes a few minutes!

Enjoy your stay!

Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Thalès76 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:36 am

So here I want to share my ideas for a new Dimps game. I think the gameplay and ki system should be like IW, so here's what i'd like to see :

- Keep the Aura Dash

- No more fighting in the air, yes you heard me, because you can't do infinite combos and guys like Goku and Gohan don't have a lot of options to make good dmg combos in the air, it would be a classic fighter just like B2.

- A tutorial on cancelling, most people still don't know that long combos are possible in the Budokai games, B1 got shitty reviews from different website because they say there's no combo system thus making the fighting system simple, the cancel system is still not very well known so it would be good to inform people.

- Trial combos, yes just like in SF4, just so the noob can learn how to combo effectively.

- Make two different throws just like in IW, but not one that ends up in the air.

- Bring back the fatigue system of B3, in IW it was over exaggerated.

- No more things like Aura Spark, Aura Burn and Hyper mode since it's completly useless.

So that's about it, what do you guys think? And I want to mention that I didn't play SBAR, so i'm going by IW and the other Budokai games, you can share your ideas too.
avatar
Thalès76
Saiyan Elite
Saiyan Elite

Gender : Male
Posts : 329
Battle Power : 310
Join date : 2009-09-17
Location : Quebec city
Zodiac Signs : Taurus Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by THTB on Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:09 pm

Aura Dash definitely should come back.

You can do infinites in the air...

Cancelling tutorial is a must.

Trial combos are okay...but only if they teach you simple BnBs...not that fancy stuff in SFIV trial.

Eh, one throw is fine, just give it more damage and range w/o the stick twirling.

B3 fatigue was practically nonexistant in matches. The only reason IW's fatigue system was kinda bad was due to the fact that it was possible to infinite still.

Aura Spark served its purpose in BL really...to manage fatigue. It's an exception. Hyper Mode/Aura Burn were indeed useless.

_________________
Fear the kickhammer!
avatar
THTB
Saiyan Creator
Saiyan Creator

Gender : Male
Posts : 706
Battle Power : 1029
Join date : 2009-09-14
Location : Cleveland, Ohio
Zodiac Signs : Gemini Snake

View user profile http://dbcompetitive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by TS Aneila on Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:21 pm

- Keep SBAR aura dash in, same elements in a way, costs ki and can absorb 1 hit.
- Use P & K for the attacks, if going to use R & S fix the nullification/priority issues.
- Like Burst Limit, lower juggle height to prevent infinites.
- Increase damage scaling.
- Burst Limits Fatigue meter.
- DM's cost no ki.
- Budokai/Shin Budokai ki system
- Make Megacrash like bursting from BB and its own seperate meter.
- Remove auraspark/hyper/aura/ juggernaut modes.

BUILD A DECENT NETCODE =O
avatar
TS Aneila
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Posts : 86
Battle Power : 97
Join date : 2009-09-15
Zodiac Signs : Scorpio Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by MOB712 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:06 pm

TS Aneila wrote:- Keep SBAR aura dash in, same elements in a way, costs ki and can absorb 1 hit.
- Use P & K for the attacks, if going to use R & S fix the nullification/priority issues.
- Like Burst Limit, lower juggle height to prevent infinites.
- Increase damage scaling.
- Burst Limits Fatigue meter.
- DM's cost no ki.
- Budokai/Shin Budokai ki system
- Make Megacrash like bursting from BB and its own seperate meter.
- Remove auraspark/hyper/aura/ juggernaut modes.

BUILD A DECENT NETCODE =O


Basically this

And really it should make SBAR system its base and like Aneila said if it uses R & S fix the priority issues. Also I think the juggling should be more like SBAR as more ppl had the ability to juggle, yet there were still low juggle states to prevent infinites.

Oh yeah make regular dashing how it was in SBAR, a shit load faster

No dragon rush, stick twirling, button mashing mini-games AT ALL

Bring back manually charging ki or make auto-regen ALOT slower; I prefer manual but that's just me. Hell or make it like most fighting games where the only way to charge it is to actually FIGHT; not like SF4 where you get rewarded for getting your ass beat.

Also bring the ability to jugle from transformations
avatar
MOB712
Saiyan Soldier
Saiyan Soldier

Gender : Male
Posts : 54
Battle Power : 50
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Florida
Zodiac Signs : Cancer Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Thalès76 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:01 am

THTB wrote:Aura Dash definitely should come back.

You can do infinites in the air...

Cancelling tutorial is a must.

Trial combos are okay...but only if they teach you simple BnBs...not that fancy stuff in SFIV trial.

Eh, one throw is fine, just give it more damage and range w/o the stick twirling.

B3 fatigue was practically nonexistant in matches. The only reason IW's fatigue system was kinda bad was due to the fact that it was possible to infinite still.

Aura Spark served its purpose in BL really...to manage fatigue. It's an exception. Hyper Mode/Aura Burn were indeed useless.

I believe some infinites don't work in the air, some work, but DF and SDS don't at least and some others.

Yes pretty simple combos and the rest they discover it by themselves.

The purpose of the second throw it's because it IW it had more range.

Yes AS was indeed practical but not much, was mainly talking about Hyper mode and Aura Burn.
avatar
Thalès76
Saiyan Elite
Saiyan Elite

Gender : Male
Posts : 329
Battle Power : 310
Join date : 2009-09-17
Location : Quebec city
Zodiac Signs : Taurus Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Thalès76 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:04 am

TS Aneila wrote:- Keep SBAR aura dash in, same elements in a way, costs ki and can absorb 1 hit.
- Use P & K for the attacks, if going to use R & S fix the nullification/priority issues.
- Like Burst Limit, lower juggle height to prevent infinites.
- Increase damage scaling.
- Burst Limits Fatigue meter.
- DM's cost no ki.
- Budokai/Shin Budokai ki system
- Make Megacrash like bursting from BB and its own seperate meter.
- Remove auraspark/hyper/aura/ juggernaut modes.

BUILD A DECENT NETCODE =O

- Why would it cost ki? In IW it was fine.
- I prefer P and K as well.
- I agree
- Yes but not like in BL, it was simply too much, I guess a little bit more than SBAR
- Yes actually the fatigue system in BL was fine, this would be better than B3.
- Hmmm, I ain't sure
- Agree
- Yes give it a new look.

And yes ONLINE is fuckin important.
avatar
Thalès76
Saiyan Elite
Saiyan Elite

Gender : Male
Posts : 329
Battle Power : 310
Join date : 2009-09-17
Location : Quebec city
Zodiac Signs : Taurus Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by TS Aneila on Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:11 am

In SBAR aura dash was faster and auradash rushes could absorb a hit unlike IW Auradash. I think it would neat to give auradashs' an armour type system, used to close distance or get away. Costs ki cause if you could spam it'd be broked.
avatar
TS Aneila
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Posts : 86
Battle Power : 97
Join date : 2009-09-15
Zodiac Signs : Scorpio Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Soriphen on Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:50 am

What I also found neat about aura dashes in SBAR is that you can do a faster version of it that wastes less ki if you just double tap and direction first. I always use it instead of the normal aura dash.

_________________
Hey!
avatar
Soriphen
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Gender : Male
Posts : 616
Battle Power : 574
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Toronto, Canada
Zodiac Signs : Leo Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Forte on Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:27 pm

TS Aneila wrote:- Keep SBAR aura dash in, same elements in a way, costs ki and can absorb 1 hit.
- Use P & K for the attacks, if going to use R & S fix the nullification/priority issues.
- Like Burst Limit, lower juggle height to prevent infinites.
- Increase damage scaling.
- Burst Limits Fatigue meter.
- DM's cost no ki.
- Budokai/Shin Budokai ki system
- Make Megacrash like bursting from BB and its own seperate meter.
- Remove auraspark/hyper/aura/ juggernaut modes.

BUILD A DECENT NETCODE =O

This stuff pretty much. Also,

-Balance the damage between physical attacks & DMs. The DM at the end of a combo shouldn't be doing more than half of the damage. Make it not awful to not end a combo w/ a DM.

-Make combos shorter. SBAR is good at this, BL was even better. Budokai games are pretty quick moving, but I think having overly long combos kind of slows the pace down unnecessarily. This could be done a couple ways, either by making baseline ki comeback faster, or doing a couple things w/ scaling to make doing these extremely long silly combos/infinites not practical in the actual game.

-Adjust the ki amount that attackers gain while comboing. Especially if DM's are free. When you stand to lose 1/2 life per combo, and use a almost half your ki escaping everytime, it creates a slippery slope to losing, since the ki game is deep in the other player's favor.

-MC isn't necessary with universal TC & dodges.

-Make moves track less so normal sidesteps are more viable. Moves like Axe kick shouldn't turn if the other player sidesteps.

There's a bunch of other stuff like making grabs better, but I think this stuff, plus Aneila's stuff like BL fatigue & less of a 100% focus on combos would improve the game a lot.
avatar
Forte
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Posts : 39
Battle Power : 30
Join date : 2009-09-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Soriphen on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:17 pm

Hmmm...yeah, good idea. DMs in SBAR would always do 100% of their original damage in any combo. I think it should be that they are affected by damage scaling as well. Also, the juggling and combos in general are very good for SBAR...I mean, they shouldn't focus on changing the properties of juggling in SBAR since it is what made the game fun. Like, it was hard to juggle, but, also satisfying enough too. They should focus more in damage scaling. The damage scale is 3% less of the original damage for each hit...I think they should raise it to 4%. Just that 1 percent will make a big difference.

_________________
Hey!
avatar
Soriphen
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Gender : Male
Posts : 616
Battle Power : 574
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Toronto, Canada
Zodiac Signs : Leo Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by MOB712 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:21 pm

Forte wrote:-Make moves track less so normal sidesteps are more viable. Moves like Axe kick shouldn't turn if the other player sidesteps.

Agree 100%
avatar
MOB712
Saiyan Soldier
Saiyan Soldier

Gender : Male
Posts : 54
Battle Power : 50
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Florida
Zodiac Signs : Cancer Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Soriphen on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:34 pm

Yeah, that's a good idea too. About the thing that Forte said about adjusting the amount of ki the attacker's gain while doing a combo...it should be like SBAR's ki system...however, the amount of ki the attacker gains should be reduced slightly. The reason for this is that the reward concept is kept for the attacker. When the attacker has a ki advantage, he should be rewarded with a damaging combo. SBAR does it well because it stresses both players to not be in a ki disadvantage.

Dimps should make it so that the borderline between ki advantage and disadvantage is thinner...meaning that the attacker has to really catch the opponent off guard for the reward to be even more satisfying. Just slight adjustments with how fast the attacker's ki raises and how fast the opponent's ki raises should do fine. It's not that they did it bad in SBAR...it's just that the ki system needs to be fine tuned.

_________________
Hey!
avatar
Soriphen
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Gender : Male
Posts : 616
Battle Power : 574
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Toronto, Canada
Zodiac Signs : Leo Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Forte on Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:48 am

This topic kind of fell on its face, but I've been wondering, what's up w/ the tech system in this series? You can break fall immediately on pretty much every knockdown, and because of the invincibility while teching, there's pretty much no reason why you wouldn't. Couldn't that be an oppurtunity to introduce some actual wake up mechanics to this game?
avatar
Forte
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Posts : 39
Battle Power : 30
Join date : 2009-09-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Bond on Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:09 am

Forte wrote:This topic kind of fell on its face, but I've been wondering, what's up w/ the tech system in this series? You can break fall immediately on pretty much every knockdown, and because of the invincibility while teching, there's pretty much no reason why you wouldn't. Couldn't that be an oppurtunity to introduce some actual wake up mechanics to this game?

Why would they be as stupid as to improve the core gameplay when they can put in new characters, like Garlic Jr and Farmer.
avatar
Bond
Saiyan Elite
Saiyan Elite

Gender : Male
Posts : 265
Battle Power : 289
Join date : 2009-10-15
Location : Australia
Zodiac Signs : Aquarius Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Thalès76 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:36 am

It ain't that big of a deal man lol, they should just focus on other things. This is still a DBZ game and not an awesome fighter like SF4 and etc.. Let's be realistic
avatar
Thalès76
Saiyan Elite
Saiyan Elite

Gender : Male
Posts : 329
Battle Power : 310
Join date : 2009-09-17
Location : Quebec city
Zodiac Signs : Taurus Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Soriphen on Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:03 pm

Forte wrote:This topic kind of fell on its face, but I've been wondering, what's up w/ the tech system in this series? You can break fall immediately on pretty much every knockdown, and because of the invincibility while teching, there's pretty much no reason why you wouldn't. Couldn't that be an oppurtunity to introduce some actual wake up mechanics to this game?

In SBAR, it's actually different. The biggest fault about breakfalling is tech traps. What I can simply do is knock the opponent in the air and predict where he'll breakfall in which I'll pull out an Aura Burst Smash. I can tech trap you just when you get up and you'll have no where else to go since it's already too late. Since Aura Burst Smash makes you invulnerable as well, you don't have to worry about counter attacks from the opponent...you just need to time it well and you'll catch him once he gets up.

Another thing to note. SBAR has 9 ways to breakfall (backwards flik flak, neutral breakfall, TC breakfall, side step up, side step down, Aura Burst backwards flik flak, Aura Burst breakfall, Aura Burst side step up and Aura Burst side step down)...Now, you may be thinking that you're completely invulnerable...but, you're not. Breakfalls are very susceptable to tech traps and if you do them too much, the opponent will begin to read you like a book and set up tech traps.

Now, here's where it gets interesting. SBAR also has 5 wakeup options (backwards flik flak, neutral wakeup, side step up and side step down). You can use a wakeup instead if your opponent begins to figure out your breakfall pattern. Using the wakeup will throw the opponent off and keep you at a safe distance from them.

Not only can you do 9 different breakfalls, but you can do 5 different wakeups as well. You can even fake your wakeup and bait your opponent in attacking you when you're down, in which you can use any of the 9 breakfalls.

Sad thing is, SBAR is the only game that has a crazy amount of tech options.

_________________
Hey!
avatar
Soriphen
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Gender : Male
Posts : 616
Battle Power : 574
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Toronto, Canada
Zodiac Signs : Leo Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by TS Aneila on Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:44 am

I really don't think the Budokai games evolved enough really to get into Oki mindgames. Need awesome netcode or offline gathering to get some EVOLUTIONZ.
avatar
TS Aneila
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Posts : 86
Battle Power : 97
Join date : 2009-09-15
Zodiac Signs : Scorpio Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by THTB on Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:54 pm

TS Aneila wrote:- Keep SBAR aura dash in, same elements in a way, costs ki and can absorb 1 hit.
- Use P & K for the attacks, if going to use R & S fix the nullification/priority issues.
- Like Burst Limit, lower juggle height to prevent infinites.
- Increase damage scaling.
- Burst Limits Fatigue meter.
- DM's cost no ki.
- Budokai/Shin Budokai ki system
- Make Megacrash like bursting from BB and its own seperate meter.
- Remove auraspark/hyper/aura/ juggernaut modes.

BUILD A DECENT NETCODE =O
-Agreed. Not just that, they should make AB reduce fatigue. Also, ABRs should just knockdown instead of lead to combos...below is why.
-Agreed. And if they use P/K, balance out the nullification. Basically, reduce the nullification windows enough so that they don't completely outprioritize anything that lacks it, and give everyone some useful nullifying move (and not have so many nullifying strings in general).
-Infinites were a result of the juggle physics. SBAR/BL's juggle physics are why there are no infinites.
-Not necessarily increase the scaling...see below for why.
-This. And make the fatigue lower faster.
-Agreed, but like Forte stated, reduce the ki regain for each hit. That and allow DMs to be EXed like in BL, thus enhancing properties in exchange for ki.
-Agreed. Honestly, I'd like to see 5 bars instead of 7, too. After a combo, you're usually capable of 2 TCs by the time the opponent can teleport, which is absolutely stupid.
-Instead of that, I think they should make MC drain 2 ki bars AND raise fatigue (more than TC).
-Agreed.

Other things I'd like to add...throws should be more damaging and have a larger hitbox, as well as have more varied knockdowns, like crumples and staggers that give frame advantage. Also, some DMs should have reduced recovery to allow for zoning, and ki blasts should give varying effects (like in the BT series). Make the game focused on a lot more than predominantly rushdown. Dash attacks should also work like in BL, in that some of them are strings or stun for combos.

Soriphen wrote:Hmmm...yeah, good idea. DMs in SBAR would always do 100% of their original damage in any combo. I think it should be that they are affected by damage scaling as well. Also, the juggling and combos in general are very good for SBAR...I mean, they shouldn't focus on changing the properties of juggling in SBAR since it is what made the game fun. Like, it was hard to juggle, but, also satisfying enough too. They should focus more in damage scaling. The damage scale is 3% less of the original damage for each hit...I think they should raise it to 4%. Just that 1 percent will make a big difference.
It will, but it's not the reason damage is so high in the first place. As you said, it's the DMs. No scaling on DMs = HUGE damage in general. So much that the game requires 4000 health to even maintain length.

_________________
Fear the kickhammer!
avatar
THTB
Saiyan Creator
Saiyan Creator

Gender : Male
Posts : 706
Battle Power : 1029
Join date : 2009-09-14
Location : Cleveland, Ohio
Zodiac Signs : Gemini Snake

View user profile http://dbcompetitive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Soriphen on Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:24 pm

Yeah true. They really gotta fix up the DMs and Ultimates.

_________________
Hey!
avatar
Soriphen
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Gender : Male
Posts : 616
Battle Power : 574
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Toronto, Canada
Zodiac Signs : Leo Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Thalès76 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:40 pm

Broly's throw in BL is 250dmg wich is pretty good but it should be like 300dmg. So throws can be more effective, and yeah they should change the throw attacks, it's very repetitive.
avatar
Thalès76
Saiyan Elite
Saiyan Elite

Gender : Male
Posts : 329
Battle Power : 310
Join date : 2009-09-17
Location : Quebec city
Zodiac Signs : Taurus Snake

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by THTB on Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:43 pm

Soriphen wrote:Yeah true. They really gotta fix up the DMs and Ultimates.
If anything, I suggest taking a page out of SFIV...have the DM/Ultimate scaling done so that, while the move is scaled, the damage isn't reduced for each individual hit. This makes sure damage is lowered, but not to the point where you're better off doing basic combos.

For example, let's say you do SSJ4 Goku's 10X Kame (IW). Normally, it does 735pts. With scaling on DMs, let's say you use it on the 15th hit, where the move will do 58% of its original damage. Instead of the normal damage, you get 426pts. On the 20th hit, scaling is 43%, so the damage is 316pts. A HUGE dropoff from what you're used to. Scaling makes a huge difference. Now that I think about it, 4% may not be a bad idea either, as at the 15th hit, the damage would be 323pts instead (44% scaling)...and at the 20th hit (24% scaling), it's 176pts.

Either way, scaling on such moves would bring the damage down enough that 3000pts of health is enough.

_________________
Fear the kickhammer!
avatar
THTB
Saiyan Creator
Saiyan Creator

Gender : Male
Posts : 706
Battle Power : 1029
Join date : 2009-09-14
Location : Cleveland, Ohio
Zodiac Signs : Gemini Snake

View user profile http://dbcompetitive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Soriphen on Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:34 pm

Daaaamn, nice idea ;P.

_________________
Hey!
avatar
Soriphen
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Gender : Male
Posts : 616
Battle Power : 574
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Toronto, Canada
Zodiac Signs : Leo Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by AquaTeamV3 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:33 am

The Scaling done on Ultimates in IW was downright horrible, and I think it got worse when you Aura Smashed IIRC.
avatar
AquaTeamV3
Saiyan Soldier
Saiyan Soldier

Posts : 72
Battle Power : 80
Join date : 2009-11-29
Zodiac Signs : Scorpio Horse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:54 pm

In addition, there shouldn't be any "awkward" stances. No character should be in a stance that doesn't allow the opponent to punish the player.

For example, Vegeta's Final Flash, once used, Vegeta is elevated at an angle on the ground. Comboing isn't possible and hitting him with an ultimate beam is not an option because it will do 400 dmg.

We need to have more ultimates, /\E and \/E, ki attacks should cost 1/4 of a bar so if you have 5 bars, it takes 1/20th of your ki.

Aura spark needs to be nerfed. Not massive speed, def, and attack boost.

Someone needs to go through all this, sum it up and post it as a list in the first comment.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by TrollCapAmerica on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:25 am

Some of these ideas are workable but alot of them havent been thought through enough

For instance the LAST thing we need in the game is less damage.In IW the damage seems to averaging 13-1400 damage thats even factoring in RTUs and DM infinites.
avatar
TrollCapAmerica
Saiyan Moderator
Saiyan Moderator

Posts : 352
Battle Power : 372
Join date : 2009-09-15
Zodiac Signs : Libra Monkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ideas for a possibly new Budokai game

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum