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Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

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Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:47 am

Introduction
Okay, me and Sori were talking the other day. We had some stupid crazy ideas for a new DBZ fighter that not only would make the game pretty good and fun competitively, but would be very flavorful and really capture that DBZ feeling well. Pretty much this thread will be one gigantic topic of our ideas as we flesh them out over time. Smile

The main idea we had was that DBZ needs to be a doujin fighter. Think about it...mechanics from doujin fighters like air dashing and bursts fit in well with DBZ's flying and energy explosions among other things...so doujin style just seems absolutely perfect.

Hopefully you guys will enjoy reading the wacky things we come up with. Smile


Last edited by THTB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:16 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:47 am

Controls

Left or Right = Movement
Down = Crouch
Up = Jump
Double-Tap Left or Right = Dash
L = Light Attack
M = Medium Attack
H = Heavy Attack
A = Aura Charge
T = Technique Attack
L+M = Throw/Throw Defense
L+A = Ultimate Deflect
L+M+H+A = Emergency Burst
L, M, or H when Knocked Down = Recovery Flip
L, M, or H plus a direction right before landing after a knockdown = Recovery Roll


Gameplay Basics
Much of the options and mechanics you have in this DBZ fighter are standard fare. You have cancels into specials and supers, throws, advanced guards, etc. Here is a rundown of the basic components.

Life Meter, Guard Meter, and Ki Gauge
You have your Life Meter, Guard Meter, and Ki Gauge.

-The Life Meter contains a select amount of points that varies among each character, with 3000 points being average. Reducing this to zero results in a KO. Taking damage does not permanently reduce life, but instead does recoverable damage (red damage). It is possible to permanently remove this red damage, though, so learn to take advantage of those options!
-The Guard Meter is very unique...like other guard meters, blocking attacks lower this meter. However, if your Guard Meter is reduced to zero, you will now take chip damage from normals until it replenishes. Also, specials now permanently remove red damage taken.
-The Ki Guage is a 5-stock special meter. You can expend this meter for various options including your Ultimate attacks.


Basic Buttons
Your movement options are pretty basic. Left or right to move, up to jump, down to crouch. You hold back or down-back to guard (can be done in the air as well), and you double tap either left or right to perform a quick dash.

Light, Medium, and Heavy are your standard normal attacks, like just about any other doujin fighter. The chain combo system is similar to most other doujin games, but the chains are generally selective. Also, each strength has a set of inherent properties. Pressing a direction in combination with an attack results in different attacks, and inputting certain directional motions will perform the character's special moves and Ultimate attacks.

-Light attacks are generally quicker attacks and are found in a lot of strings. These will oftentimes be your safest attacking options and may be the ones that provide the best frame advantage.
-Medium attacks are slightly slower than Light attacks, but tend to do more damage and also have the ability to be kara-cancelled by dashes. How you take can take advantage of this property is very dependent on the normal/string.
-Heavy attacks have probably the largest number of properties. Aside from being the most damaging normal, they also possess super armor, though the window of this super armor varies from Heavy to Heavy. These are also the only normals that are capable of knockdowns, including launching, wall-bounces, ground bounces, crumple stuns, etc. The biggest downside to Heavies are that they cannot be special or Ultimate-cancelled.

The Technique attack is very similar to the Drive system from BlazBlue. Each character has an extra set of attacks that provide some unique properties not found in the normals. Some of these properties include teleports, guard breaks, attacks that have invulnerability, and even switches characters altogether. You'll have to experiment with each character to understand what their Technique is. Also, unlike specials and Ultimates, Heavies CAN cancel into this.

The Aura Charge is a fairly tweaked version of the Aura Burst from the Shin Budokai games. Much like in those games, this particular button gives some special commands.

-Aura Dashing is performed by pressing the A button plus a direction. You can Aura Dash up, down, left, or right. These can also be performed in the air. Pressing one of the normal attacks during an Aura Dash results in an Aura Attack. The dashes performed in this manner are generally faster and travel a little further, but as a result, have more recovery.
-Aura Boost is this game's EX move. By inputting a special command and the A button, you can expend one Ki stock to boost the abilities of your attack, like extra invincibility frames, more damage, faster startup, etc. It is also possible to Aura Boost an Ultimate attack.
-It is also possible to cancel an attack after or during active frames with an Aura Dash. This is called Aura Cancelling. It requires 1 stock of Ki to perform, so it's not constantly possible unless you want to expend meter. It is also limited to certain attacks that have the property of being Aura Cancellable.


Last edited by THTB on Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:59 am; edited 12 times in total

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:47 am

Advanced Controls
Here are the more advanced options you have.


Throws
Throwing is performed by pressing Light and Medium at the same time. Your character will perform an unblockable 5-frame attack that knocks the opponent down. You can avoid this particular attack by being in an airborne state like jumping or doing a hopping attack, or by Throw Defense, which is done by pressing Light and Medium within 10 frames of being thrown.

Some characters may possess air throws, which are defended against by being grounded or Throw Defense.


Advanced Defenses
There are quite a few defensive commands for this game besides just blocking and Throw Defense.

When knocked down from an attack, pressing any normal attack while still in the air performs the Recovery Flip. This resets you to an airborne state, and you are free to block and attack afterwards.

Right before landing while in a knocked down state, pressing a normal attack and a direction will do the Recovery Roll. The button pressed will determine how far you roll, with L being the shortest distance and H being the longest. Be careful, as you can be thrown during this roll, and it cannot be defended.

If you are in trouble, you may press all 3 attacks and the A button to perform an Emergency Burst. Note, this will cost not only 3 stocks of Ki, but will drain all red damage that occurs. The Emergency Burst is basically a burst...it can be performed at any time and knocks back the opponent if they're in range of the explosion, dealing slight damage.

The Deflect can prove to be a very useful option in a tricky spot. What the Deflect does is allows you to deflect a projectile Ultimate instead of block it by pressing A+L within 5 frames of contact with the Ultimate. You will take no damage as a result. Be aware, though, this costs 2 stocks of Ki and will drain your Guard Meter by half the maximum amount. If your Guard Meter is below half-filled when you perform this, it will only half the chip damage.


Last edited by THTB on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:00 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:47 am

Roster
This DBZ fighter will have somewhere around 25 characters.

Goku
Vegeta
Young Gohan
Gohan
Sword Trunks
Fighting Trunks
Gotenks
Vegito
Gogeta
Piccolo
Krillin
Nappa
Frieza
The Android Twins (17 & 18)
Cell
Dabura
Majin Buu
Super Buu
Kid Buu
Bardock
Broly
Cooler
Bojack
Pikkon
Janemba

Pretty much the entire Shin Budokai cast, though Nappa and Bojack are included, and 18 is now a tag-team character with 17 (I'll go into details how this works). Each character has different Life Meter and Guard Meter values, as I will list below.


Life Meter Rankings
3500 (High) - Nappa, Majin Buu, Broly
3250 (Above Average) - Fighting Trunks, Piccolo, Cell, Super Buu, Bojack
3000 (Average) - Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Vegito, Dabura, Bardock, Cooler, Pikkon, Janemba
2750 (Below Average) - Young Gohan, Sword Trunks, Gotenks, Krillin, Frieza
2500 (Low) - Twins, Kid Buu
2250 (Very Low) - Gogeta

Guard Meter Rankings
1200 (High) - Nappa, Broly, Gohan
1100 (Above Average) - Vegito, Piccolo, Cell, Dabura, Majin Buu
1000 (Average) - Goku, Young Gohan, Fighting Trunks, Gotenks, Frieza, Twins, Bardock, Cooler, Pikkon
900 (Below Average) - Vegeta, Sword Trunks, Krillin, Super Buu, Bojack
800 (Low) - Kid Buu, Janemba
700 (Very Low) - Gogeta


Last edited by THTB on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:34 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:48 am

Character Movesets



Goku
As most main characters are, Goku is designed to be the all-around character that is easy for beginners to pick up. He has solid tools to fit various situations, but none too powerful. His statistical data is very average as well. While he is very easy to pick up, he is very difficult to master, as he requires thorough knowledge of his entire set of options available to him.

Technique Attack: Kaioken - Goku uses one of his signature moves, the Kaioken attack, for a variety of options for different situations.


Vegeta
Vegeta is notorious for his powerful energy attacks. He generally overpowers his opponents by bombarding them with various projectile-based attacks, which can be used from various ranges, generally from a distance. He's great, but be careful, as he has trouble when dealing with opponents who can get past his barrage. Pick your shots wisely when using him.

Technique Attack: Rapid-Fire Energy Wave - Vegeta uses energy bullets to peck away at the opponent as they try to get around them. Pressing the T button rapidly produces up to 5 projectiles.


Young Gohan
The younger incarnation of Gohan contains a hidden power capable of toppling even the mightiest of foes. He definitely hurts when he lands hits, regardless of whether it's a projectile or physical hit. He's definitely powerful, but there's a drawback to this...his damage comes in the form of his Technique, which sacrifices recoverable life for power boosts.

Technique Attack: Hidden Potential - Young Gohan loses himself in a fit of rage, unleashing his hidden power. Using this boosts his damage based on red damage taken. While this is active, Young Gohan's red damage drains and any damage taken drains both red life and actual life.


Last edited by THTB on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:01 am

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:02 am

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:02 am

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:41 am

Pretty good, how does the fighter play? Because depending on what you say, cancels can still be implemented via blockstrings

As in say Goku uses 6L, 2M, 6H, normally it behaves like his budokai cancel, and causes a crumple stun on the "H" part of it should be Aura cancelable. Aura canceling in such a way would put the user in a custom combo-like state, where they can chain strings and normals togethter really quicklyfor pressuring purposes. But this would cost a steady amount of meter, and any combos using it should scale at a higher rate.

On that note I'm gonna butt in on this project and start making movelists based on your controll system. Smile
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Thalès76 on Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:41 am

Please don't make throws like in SSF4 where it eats normals, moves and even EX moves.
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:12 am

Goku

Specials

1]QCF+L-Kamehameha

2]46+L-Rushing Elbow
--->5H-Headbutt[Can be aura canceled here]

3]DP+M-Super Dragon Fist
--->5M-Heavy Blow[Can be repeated 3 times]
--->QCF+H-Kiai Blast[After Heavy Blow]
--->H-Heavy Punch[Can be aura canceled here, after Heavy Blow]

4]BDP+Attack-Ki Blast Cannon[Aura Cancelable]

Supers

1]QCF+2 Attack buttons-Super Kamehameha[Costs 2 Meter]

2]DP+2 Attack Buttons-Meteor Combination[Costs 2 Meters]

3]360+Aura-Super Saiyan[1 meter per transformation]
--->QCB+Aura-Super Saiyan 2
--->QCB+Aura-Super Saiyan 3

4]360+Attack-Spirit Bomb[Costs 4 meters]
--->5H-Final Blast

Techniques

1]5T- Kaioken Dash: Dashes as fast as an aura dash, but only as far as a regular one. Is guard an crouch cancelable, giving Goku a wavedash

2]Air 3T- Kaioken Rush: Essentially Ragna's Belial Edge, used mainly for meter gain, hits otg on the last hit

Normal Command List

Light Attacks

1]5L-Quick 3 frame jab, hits mid, cancelable into: itself, 6L, 2L, 6M, 2M, 3M, 5H, 6H, Specials, Supers, dashes, and jumps

2]2L-3 frame jab, hits low. cancelable into: itself, 5L, 2L, 6M, 2M, 3M, 5H, 6H, Specials, and Supers

3]6L-Launcher can start minor juggles and air combos, but if hitstun is scaled too high, the combo won't work-similar to Ragna's, hits mid. cancelable into: jumps, dashes, specials, and supers

4]Air 5L-used for resets, recovers fairly quickly on hit. cancelable into: dashes, jumps


Medium Attacks

1]5M-Long range kick used for spacing, hits mid. cancelable into: 6M, 2M, 3M, 5H, 6H, Specials, and Supers

2]6M-Combo filler, causes floor bounce on juggle. cancelable into: 2A, specials, supers, and dashes

3]2M- long range poke used for spacing, hits low. cancelable into: 5M, 2H, dashes, and jumps

4]4M- Overhead that hits OTG, can be used to extend combos

5]Air 5M-Combo fiiller, can be used to crossup, extremely effective when paired with his airdash

Heavy Attacks

1]5H-2 hit normal with super armor, causes floor bounce on the second hit. First hit is high, the other hits overhead. cancelable into: dashes, jumps, aura attacks

2]6H-Goku's real launcher, has a deceptive hit box, it actually hits low first and then mid on the other hit. canelable into: dashes, jumps, aura attacks

3]2H-long range poke that causes an untechable knockdown on hit. cancelable into: dashes, jumps, aura attacks


Last edited by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:54 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:18 pm

Thales, throws eat normals that are slower and of less range than the throw. Going through a fireball with a throw is possible in other SF games.

Brohan, good stuff. The fighter has more of a balanced style of an engine, where pretty much any character design should work. Also, Supers are generally gonna cost 3 or more meters.

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:02 pm

I assume meter gain is gonna be a bit higher than the norm right? Becuase IMO, you can keep the weakest supers at one meter for Bnb purposes[Like Meteor Combination], but put punishing supers[Super Kamemeha] at 2 or more meters for obvious reasons.

I can see this game playing like BB too, fits your control scheme almost perfectly, and that can be a good thing if you don't have that retarded negative penalty thing from BB.

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by lordantonius on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:18 pm

This is a really nice idea. Great stuff.
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:45 pm

Meter gain is gonna have to be pretty high if it's gonna fill 5 stocks. It'd likely be a good idea to make Ultimates cost 2-5 stocks, depending on the Ultimate. I can see weaker Ultimates costing 2 stocks but that's as low as I see it, especially with AB moves.

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:49 pm

ah shit looked through the section on heavy attacks again and am gonna have to revamp Goku's normals.
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:28 pm

My suggested character list:

Goku
Vegeta
Piccolo
Gohan
Adult Trunks
Janemba
Gotenks
Tien
Yamcha
Krillin
Freeza
Dabura
Buu
Bardock
Pikkon
Superman[guest[
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:38 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of Shin Budokai cast + a few new ones. The list in the 3rd post isn't final, but I think 25 is a good number. It's just right...it's not overkilling, but it's not too few, and I have a lot of ideas for character designs. Also, I wanna exclude transformations as part of the moveset, except in select cases.

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:41 pm

That's all cool with me, now i can start working on movelists
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:48 pm

Me and Sori had quite a few ideas for designs, like obviously Goku is the typical all-around character, Piccolo is your Dhalsim-like long-ranged keepaway character, Gogeta is the glass cannon, Fighting Trunks is your semi-grappler, etc. I can make a start to the archetypes I had in mind, and then we can further discuss them.

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:23 pm

aight
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Thalès76 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:57 am

Nappa would be the grappler how is Trunks a grappler? Recoome also.
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:19 am

Trunks would be the semi-grappler like Abel. Broly, Bojack and Majin Buu are pretty good fits for grapplers as well.

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by Brohan on Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Fighter Trunks

Note

Trunks loses his omni airdash with one technique use, his airdash and 1 jump with 2, and his ground dash on the 3rd. Gains a 10% attack boost when stamina or guard meter is below 30%
Specials

1]QCB+M-Whirlwind Tackle[Roll, can cancel into any of these followups during the rolling animaton]
--->Any Normal
--->Jump
---->QCF+L-Whirlwind Grapple[command grab]
---->QCF+M-Whirlwind Tackle[can roll through or over the opponent]
----->QCF+H-Defensive Roll[Backwards Roll]

2]360+Attack-Whirlwind Grapple[Is comboable int the air, the heavy version causes floorbounce]

3]QCF+Attack-Finish Buster[Light is horizontal, Medium is vertical, and Heavy i diagonal, all versions shoot diagonally in the air]

Supers

1]360+2 Attacks-Hurricane Grapple[costs 2 meters command grab]

2]QCB+ 2 attacks-Heat Dome Attack[costs 3 meters, has hyper armor on startup, the dash animation becomes more and more negligible as you use his Technique, Inexperienced Power-up ]

3]QCF+2 attacks-Wild Rush Blaster[Costs 2 meters]
--->H-Big Bang Attack[costs 2 meters, comboable afterwards]

Normal Command List

Light Attacks

1]5L-2 frame jab in base, 3 frames after one Technique use, 5 after 2, gains super armor on the 3rd. Cancelable into all normals, specials, supers, dashes, and jumps, does not combo.

2]6L-a step punch with projectile invincibility. Kara cancelable into throws and all specials and normals

3]8L- Anti air normal, gains super armor after one technique use, and invincibility frames on the 2nd.

4]2L-2 frame jab in base, 3 frames after one Technique use, 5 after 2, gains super armor on the 3rd. Cancelable into all normals, specials, supers, dashes, and jumps

5]Air 5l- standard air combo filler, can be used 1 additional time for each technique use

Medium Attacks

1]5M- 5 frame, short range poke, gains super armor after technique use. Cancelable into all M normals, dashes, 6HHHH, specials, and supers.

2]6M-Long range poke, gains range with technique use, but also loses 1 frame of startup speed for every use. Cancelable into all M normals,6HHHH, dashes, specials, and supers.

3]2M-Kara cancelable normal. Cancelable into Cancelable into all M normals, 6HHHH, dashes, specials, and supers.

4]3M-long range sweeping attack. Used for resets in base, but causes an untechable knockdown with technique use. cancelable into dashes, jumps, and all M normals

5]Air 5M-standard air combo fille, can be used 1 additional time for each technique use

Heavy Attacks
1]6HHHH- his SBAR starter, is safe on block in base, but loses frame advatage with further technique use.
cancelable into: dashes, jumps, Aura, techniques, and 3H.

2]3H-Launcher, gains super armor with 3 technique uses

3]Air 5H- standard air combo filler can be used 1 additional time for each technique use, cancelable into 5H, aura attacks, and techniques.

Vegeta

Specials

1]QCF+Attack-Ki Blast Array[Causes good blockstun, and hits OTG in the air, can be done instantly after a jump, making it a good presuring tool]

2]QCB+Attack-Exposive Wave[Anti crossup move, has considerable recovery, and does no damage]

3]HCF+Attack-Atomic Blaster[Laser that eats most other projectiles, aerial version shoots downward]

4]HCB+Attack-Big Bang Attack[Causes Massive hitstun, mainly used to hit confirm his Supers. Command can be repeated up to 3 times to shoot 3 projectiles]

Supers

1]QCF+2 attacks-Final Flash[Costs 2 meters]

2]QCB+ 2 attacks-Galick Gun[costs 3 meters, Vegeta flys straight up, and fires a beam, if you are caught in his flight path, you are carried up with him and take constant damage, as well as any damage the beam does. The last hit of the beam his otg]

Normal Command List
coming soon


Last edited by Brohan on Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

Post by THTB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:24 pm

Good stuff for both characters!

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Re: Tay, Sori and Brohan's ideas for a new DBZ fighter (WIP)

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