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The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

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The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by autobzooty on Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:18 pm

Spike has confirmed that Ultimate Tenkaichi (releasing in a few months) will be the last DBZ game they make. Namco-Bandai will have to seek out a new developer for the next title. A lot of things are possible. Namco could develop it internally or with the help of the team that makes the Naruto games. Or....

The king could return. Dimps is working on another title which will ship around the same time as Ultimate Tenkaichi. It's very possible that Namco will turn to the people who already have experience with the franchise making games that were received extremely well. Nothing confirmed yet, but I thought the DBC community more than anybody would wanna hear this news if they haven't been following it.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by Brohan on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:44 pm

If they do, then oK, I guess.

It's not like Dimps doesn't still make games, most of them are just arcade only ones like Dragon Ball Heroes that only see release in Japan
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by autobzooty on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:56 pm

I guess by "return," I mean return to making games I care about. Smile

I'm not so much into their other anime games, Sonic, or Street Fighter.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by AquaTeamV3 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:02 pm

I for one wouldn't mind a sequel to Super DBZ.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by lordantonius on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:51 am

This would be nice, I don't like what they did with DBZUT. I got a chance to play it at comic-con and I spent 99% of the time watching stupid cut scenes then fighting. Budokai and Super DBZ had it right.
Also where can I find this info at? Link please.

Shouldn't this be in General Discussion? Man sucks this place is so dead.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by autobzooty on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:57 am

Got most of my news on the game from neogaf.

Couple of video interviews with the Spike staff with the relevant bits:

http://youtu.be/L-2HluklOt4
http://youtu.be/E0abQFHNvSI

And here's the thread where I've been getting most of my info on the game.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=28977025

Ultimate Tenkaichi looks okay for what it is, but I really wanna see a return to proper fighting games for DBZ. The Budokai series was so refreshing in a world of capcom clones, I really hope it comes back with some online play.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by lordantonius on Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:56 pm

The problem with the BT, RB and this new UT they are fighting simulators. Which imo don't belong in the fighter genre. But these companies want money so they cater to the fanboys who buy into this crap. I doubt they will go back to budokai system due to the fact how bad BL was.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by autobzooty on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:01 pm

The tenkaichi games are no where near as good as the budokai games, but i don't hate them. i don't knock super mario for not being a fighting game, and i feel the same way about tenkaichi. neat for what it is, not worth playing competitively.

there does seem to be SOMEWHAT of a fan outcry for a return to Super DBZ or B3/IW, though. Probably not big enough to actually make a difference, but i dunno. BL was before capcom brought fighting games back to life with SF4, so maybe they'll start looking to get in on the new fad.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by lordantonius on Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:27 pm

Tenkaichi 1 was okay, after that it just got boring. These type of games would be nice if it were an RPG like or MMO. I would love DragonBall Online to come to the US. If Dimps hadn't loss the license maybe there would of been an IW for New Gen systems, BL just didn't cut it. I really think BL was rushed. By far SBAR and IW were the best of the Budokai series. B3 was the foundation that shouldn't of died. We can only hope that the future of DBZ fighters will improve.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by THTB on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:21 am

If Dimps does come back to do DBZ...they are gonna have to do a major revamp, as well as properly develop the game (i.e. BALANCE TESTING!).

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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by AquaTeamV3 on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:15 am

THTB wrote:If Dimps does come back to do DBZ...they are gonna have to do a major revamp, as well as properly develop the game (i.e. BALANCE TESTING!).

This. Seriously, as much as I like IW, the balance issues are too great. Far too many characters are too under-powered to be used in high-level play, and some stuff is just OP for no reason (Super Kamehameha).
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by lordantonius on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:48 pm

THTB wrote:If Dimps does come back to do DBZ...they are gonna have to do a major revamp, as well as properly develop the game (i.e. BALANCE TESTING!).
Agreed!
AquaTeamV3 wrote:This. Seriously, as much as I like IW, the balance issues are too great. Far too many characters are too under-powered to be used in high-level play, and some stuff is just OP for no reason (Super Kamehameha).
Also this^.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by TrollCapAmerica on Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:06 pm

AquaTeamV3 wrote:
THTB wrote:If Dimps does come back to do DBZ...they are gonna have to do a major revamp, as well as properly develop the game (i.e. BALANCE TESTING!).

This. Seriously, as much as I like IW, the balance issues are too great. Far too many characters are too under-powered to be used in high-level play, and some stuff is just OP for no reason (Super Kamehameha).

God damn it I explained this 3 years ago.Super Kamehameha is NOT overpowered.Its a neat weapon but thats about it

Infinite World was an excellently balanced fighting game even with its high powered top tier.In particularly you have useful characters all throughout the cast and only the last few were too underdeveloped

Anyways id love to see DIMPs come back and give us something to talk about around here again even if it just ends up with only me doing everything again
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by autobzooty on Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:47 pm

Well "balance" means a lot more than just "is x character good against y character."

there's a lot of useless mechanics in infinite world, dozens of pointless combos for every single character, throws being impossible to tech and ruining the flow of a match, and ultimates still being relatively useless across the board.

i'd personally like to see dimps come in and downsize the roster and rework some of the fundamentals of the budokai system, but that's probably hoping for too much. it's a dragon ball z game first and a fighting game second. doesn't help that the franchise is annual, too :\
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by Nnamz on Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:42 pm

TrollCapAmerica wrote:
AquaTeamV3 wrote:
THTB wrote:If Dimps does come back to do DBZ...they are gonna have to do a major revamp, as well as properly develop the game (i.e. BALANCE TESTING!).

This. Seriously, as much as I like IW, the balance issues are too great. Far too many characters are too under-powered to be used in high-level play, and some stuff is just OP for no reason (Super Kamehameha).

God damn it I explained this 3 years ago.Super Kamehameha is NOT overpowered.Its a neat weapon but thats about it

Infinite World was an excellently balanced fighting game even with its high powered top tier.In particularly you have useful characters all throughout the cast and only the last few were too underdeveloped

Anyways id love to see DIMPs come back and give us something to talk about around here again even if it just ends up with only me doing everything again



I swear I'll be in the front lines as long as they actually advance the series in a meaningful way without take steps backwards. As good as a game Infinite World was, I felt it was a step backwards in many ways, which was the only reason I didn't buy it day one and the only reason I wasn't the biggest contributer at the beginning.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by TrollCapAmerica on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:48 pm

It saddens me that we have kinda been stuck ever since BL actually came out a few years back.We are well into 11' and IW kind of died down in mid 09
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by Nnamz on Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:14 am

Hopefully someone will step up to the plate, whether it's Dimps or someone else. Maybe Vita will bring some fresh new DBZ fighters in, who knows? I just want SOMETHING to get excited about.

I actually went back and played Super DBZ the other day. That was a pretty solid game, and a nice alternative to the Budokai series as a serious DBZ fighter. I never quite fell in love with it, but I wish it got the respect it deserved.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by Brohan on Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:04 pm

When you have low tier characters not even having combo starters, and top tiers that can cockblock every other character in the game because of priority issues, you have a problem.

And then there's your chains that just plain don't work

Or characters that can one touch kill you

or damage that is so high you have to raise the default HP settings

or how juggle physics are so fucked up that everyone has infinites, which are nice to have, but when damn near the whole cast has 2 or more of them, damage being low or not, there's a fundamental problem with your game.

IE: and extremely unbalanced game that should have been loke tested

As much as I like them, I could go on and on for a dozen posts about how crappy Budokai games really are, and how for me to even buy another one, or even support the series anymore, they'll need to majorly revamp their shit
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by 012yArthur0 on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:05 pm

Brohan wrote:When you have low tier characters not even having combo starters, and top tiers that can cockblock every other character in the game because of priority issues, you have a problem.

And then there's your chains that just plain don't work

Or characters that can one touch kill you

or damage that is so high you have to raise the default HP settings

or how juggle physics are so fucked up that everyone has infinites, which are nice to have, but when damn near the whole cast has 2 or more of them, damage being low or not, there's a fundamental problem with your game.

IE: and extremely unbalanced game that should have been loke tested

As much as I like them, I could go on and on for a dozen posts about how crappy Budokai games really are, and how for me to even buy another one, or even support the series anymore, they'll need to majorly revamp their shit

This.

Gravedigging, but who cares? Forum's dead.

IW is the best DBZ game, but it don't mean it is a great game. It is good, and thats about it.

Many people from BT3 complained B3 and IW not because of gameplay, but the graphics that is too akward for them, but... If Dimps release a New Dbz game with a fighting style similar to Infinite World and with BL Graphics, they can do nothing but suck it up.

In my opinion, they should:

1. Give more time to fusion characters. Really, in long fights, I had to make 6-7 fusion that I could actually hit, especially that Aura Dashing crap.
2. Nerf the Aura Dash, really, it so much bonus for almost no cost. Make the character lose KI when do it. And I mean ALOT.
3. Give more combo opportunities to low-tier characters like, Kid gohan,krillin, nappa, raditz, androids. They already have Low Ki, but they even can't build it well?
4. More priority to ultimates. Sure, Dimps was right to make it expensive to avoid spammism, but they balanced so much that it is useless, since any average player knows how to dodge it.
5. Reduce the price of the items, hell, I had to max my money somewhat like 20 times to buy everything.
6. Reduce the priority to the high-tiers.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by THTB on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:14 am

Honestly, fusion characters should be entirely separate characters.

Aura dashing in IW honestly is about as perfect as it gets.

The mechanic-based changes I'd make to a sequel to IW are as follows:

-Ability to set rounds
-5 bar ki system...no baseline
-RT deathmoves that only drain ki with an EX-style boost (extra properties gained with the boost)
-Normal throws have more range, do 3x more damage, and have more variations to them
-Energy throws more varied, but do about 3/4 the damage of normal throws (1/2 if the throw juggles)
-Remove all cutscene ultimates, and replace them with Super-style ultimates
-Increase damage scaling to 4%, and all special moves now are scaled in combos
-Tweak out the null armor so that it's not as dominant as it has been for the past 4 games
-NO MORE POWERUP MODE
-NO MORE BEAM STRUGGLES OR BURST MODE

That's about it.

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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by TrollCapAmerica on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:49 pm

012yArthur0 wrote:
Brohan wrote:When you have low tier characters not even having combo starters, and top tiers that can cockblock every other character in the game because of priority issues, you have a problem.

And then there's your chains that just plain don't work

Or characters that can one touch kill you

or damage that is so high you have to raise the default HP settings

or how juggle physics are so fucked up that everyone has infinites, which are nice to have, but when damn near the whole cast has 2 or more of them, damage being low or not, there's a fundamental problem with your game.

IE: and extremely unbalanced game that should have been loke tested

As much as I like them, I could go on and on for a dozen posts about how crappy Budokai games really are, and how for me to even buy another one, or even support the series anymore, they'll need to majorly revamp their shit

This.

Gravedigging, but who cares? Forum's dead.

IW is the best DBZ game, but it don't mean it is a great game. It is good, and thats about it.

Many people from BT3 complained B3 and IW not because of gameplay, but the graphics that is too akward for them, but... If Dimps release a New Dbz game with a fighting style similar to Infinite World and with BL Graphics, they can do nothing but suck it up.

In my opinion, they should:

1. Give more time to fusion characters. Really, in long fights, I had to make 6-7 fusion that I could actually hit, especially that Aura Dashing crap.
2. Nerf the Aura Dash, really, it so much bonus for almost no cost. Make the character lose KI when do it. And I mean ALOT.
3. Give more combo opportunities to low-tier characters like, Kid gohan,krillin, nappa, raditz, androids. They already have Low Ki, but they even can't build it well?
4. More priority to ultimates. Sure, Dimps was right to make it expensive to avoid spammism, but they balanced so much that it is useless, since any average player knows how to dodge it.
5. Reduce the price of the items, hell, I had to max my money somewhat like 20 times to buy everything.
6. Reduce the priority to the high-tiers.
THTB wrote:Honestly, fusion characters should be entirely separate characters.

Aura dashing in IW honestly is about as perfect as it gets.

The mechanic-based changes I'd make to a sequel to IW are as follows:

-Ability to set rounds
-5 bar ki system...no baseline
-RT deathmoves that only drain ki with an EX-style boost (extra properties gained with the boost)
-Normal throws have more range, do 3x more damage, and have more variations to them
-Energy throws more varied, but do about 3/4 the damage of normal throws (1/2 if the throw juggles)
-Remove all cutscene ultimates, and replace them with Super-style ultimates
-Increase damage scaling to 4%, and all special moves now are scaled in combos
-Tweak out the null armor so that it's not as dominant as it has been for the past 4 games
-NO MORE POWERUP MODE
-NO MORE BEAM STRUGGLES OR BURST MODE

That's about it.


Ok allow me to chime in Mad

1 Top tiers are not autowin because 2 and a half of them have tons of priority
2 Characters can TOD combo you?So FUCCCCKKINGGG WHAT?This is a fighting game not a preteen soccer game where everyone gets a trophy for participating TOD combos arent as common as people believe
3 Default settings for health were based on the Budokai 1 not what should be "average".Hell they were too low for that game as well which is why they put in the option to up health
4 Im gonna say it right now.FUCK GOEGETA.Fuck the god damn overrated ass infinite combos that usually end in a dropped combo because the physics arent THAT friendly to 90% of juggles.People have bitxched about that overrated sh9it for so long I cant even hold back my irritation.Its like people bitching about Sentinel still

5 Fusions would work better as normal characters like in SB.You dont need insane stat boosts then to compensate and could just make them solid regular characters.Agreed
6 NO.We do not need a method to move around and extend combos that essentially forces you to bleed by removing your Ki.AD is fine as is especially considering its actually slower than some methods of getting around depending on how far your going
7 Yeah the lower tiers could use more love especially perennial low tiers like 17 and Nappa.Just pointing out its not as simple as less popular/powerful in the series characters getting the shaft considering Yamcha and Super 17s positions
8 Combo into ultimates problem solved
9 No comment
10 Meh you should at worst spread the wealth around the cats and chains more

11 Remember what we got stuck with the last tim the kI system changed for no reason?Just have everyone start at 4 bars lik in SB and its fine
12 I dont see a need for that
13 Throws should do damage on par with a good death move OR lead into a combo with either stagger or juggles.It doesnt need much more than that to make them worthwhile
14 Cut0scene ultimates have a place as another variation what we really need is just more RTUs along with them
15 More scaling means less dmaage in the last damaging Budokai game yet.We also had scaling for DMs in combos in B1 and 2 and that just made DMs useless
16 Or spread it around the cast better.Make characters more like Goten with armor on parts of chains rather than the whole thing
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by 012yArthur0 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:00 pm

I think Aura Dashing is broken because it don't cost anything, and you can dodge alot of attacks with it. It should cost ki like it was on Another Road.

Normal Throw shouldn't have more range, but quicker. IMO, a throw should be used as close range, like any fighting-game. The problem is that is low, does low damage and have ridiculous high recovery.

I don't see much of a reason to use rounds, because when a match ends you can just press "Rematch" and thats it.

I think Super should be modified, like "High Risk/High Reward" kind of techiniques, like Teen Gohan Super Kamehameha, but with less brokeness. For example, a Kamehameha cost 3 ki bars, doing more damage than a dragon fist but have a bad side effect would make it less spammy and make the player think before using it.

About the fusions, that is a good idea. However, we can't use B3 characters, so B3 SSj4 Vegeta would not exist. Maybe it could be like Vegeto, use the ultimate and you will use the Fusion for the rest of a match (Maybe the exception would be SSJ4 Gogeta).
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by Brohan on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:02 pm

Umm cap, pretty sure you didn't even really read my post.

Not once did I say infinites are broken, they're often times stupid to use after 20+ hits, but when they're in the entire cast's moveset, there's a problem. A fundamental problem with your system. Infinites are mistakes, they're not supposed to be there, and IW has like over a hundred of them. Most of them aren't even viable like the ones in Mvc2.

Top tiers in this game DO shit on every other character whether you like it or not, and yes, while priority doesn't make them autowin, Goku and the other top tiers have a distinct advantage against every other character when played properly. Higher damage, range, frame advantage ect, all at little risk.

Touch of death combos are retarded when they're as easy as Bardock's, and are a problem when said character's strat is trying to get off that combo, since he has shit for priority, starters, or safe pokes, even damage without it.

I love Budokai to death, but it's extremely flawed.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by TrollCapAmerica on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:23 pm

012yArthur0 wrote:I think Aura Dashing is broken because it don't cost anything, and you can dodge alot of attacks with it. It should cost ki like it was on Another Road.

Normal Throw shouldn't have more range, but quicker. IMO, a throw should be used as close range, like any fighting-game. The problem is that is low, does low damage and have ridiculous high recovery.

I don't see much of a reason to use rounds, because when a match ends you can just press "Rematch" and thats it.

I think Super should be modified, like "High Risk/High Reward" kind of techiniques, like Teen Gohan Super Kamehameha, but with less brokeness. For example, a Kamehameha cost 3 ki bars, doing more damage than a dragon fist but have a bad side effect would make it less spammy and make the player think before using it.

About the fusions, that is a good idea. However, we can't use B3 characters, so B3 SSj4 Vegeta would not exist. Maybe it could be like Vegeto, use the ultimate and you will use the Fusion for the rest of a match (Maybe the exception would be SSJ4 Gogeta).

1 Broken indicates that it makes a game unplayable.Like Ivan Ooze not going into hitstun or nobody being able to effectively fight aginst ST Akumas air fireball.An average moderately useful feature is so far from broken its incalculable

2 They just need more comboability off throws.Having ones that crumple or juggle would be more interesting than more damage although that could work as well.I think vareity is what would help the most there

3 Aura Block beats spamming ultimates so this isnt even worth talking about.I also think beefing projectiles would be a meh move when H2H fighting is done so well in this series compared to most DBZ games

4 Id prefer them as normal characters in line with everyone else btu unique enough to be worth playing but meh

Brohan wrote:Umm cap, pretty sure you didn't even really read my post.

Not once did I say infinites are broken, they're often times stupid to use after 20+ hits, but when they're in the entire cast's moveset, there's a problem. A fundamental problem with your system. Infinites are mistakes, they're not supposed to be there, and IW has like over a hundred of them. Most of them aren't even viable like the ones in Mvc2.

Top tiers in this game DO shit on every other character whether you like it or not, and yes, while priority doesn't make them autowin, Goku and the other top tiers have a distinct advantage against every other character when played properly. Higher damage, range, frame advantage ect, all at little risk.

Touch of death combos are retarded when they're as easy as Bardock's, and are a problem when said character's strat is trying to get off that combo, since he has shit for priority, starters, or safe pokes, even damage without it.

I love Budokai to death, but it's extremely flawed.

1 The entire cast also can Heavy Slam in combos and I dont here complaints about that.Why the complaints about somethings that been around since B1 and has actually made the games WORSE as they tried to get rid of them?

2 Actually the main way to determine a characters tier status has always been the ability to land combos.Some characters just ended up better at it than others.What it sounds like your complaining about is the idea that top tiers showed up at all which is an inevitability in a fighting game.This is still the best Budokai ever made AND the one with the most viable characters across the cast despite a strong upper tier

4 as I said TOD combos arent the norm and are rather overrated.Bardok ending up without as many options as other cast members isnt a sign that somethings wrong with the system its a sign that Bardok was underdeveloped/nerfed and ends up a one trick pony.This also happens in video games sometimes and while its not a plus imo its not that big a minus either
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

Post by AquaTeamV3 on Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:53 pm

IW is a flawed game, yes, but it's easily the best of the Budokais. The balance isn't as bad as it could be; I main Goten and Future Trunks, and I don't feel too disadvantaged going against Goku and his elbow shenanigans. The number of characters that you can use in a competitive environment is pretty large, despite the fact that there's also a decent amount of unplayable characters.

Sure, I don't consider IW to be the ideal DBZ fighter (Super DBZ, Hyper Dimension, and Cybalthazar's MUGEN project are better IMO), but it's still a good game in itself. The only glaring thing that I think should be fixed in-game are dead-body infinites.
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Re: The end of Spike's DBZ games. Will Dimps return?

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