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RB Tier Discussion

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RB Tier Discussion Empty RB Tier Discussion

Post by THTB on Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:13 am

Alright, with RB out, I guess we can do a little tier discussion. Since it's early on, we've just got first impressions. So yeah...here's how I look at it. Note, I'm judging by normal characters.

-As far as I can see, Kid Buu and Goku are guaranteed top tiers. Kid Buu's generally so unpredictable with all of his options in melee and overall speed, and Base Goku has some of the best moves in the game in Solar Flare and Spirit Bomb.

-Gogeta, Vegito, Piccolo, and likely Krillin will make up the rest of top tier. They're all solid characters who have great offensive and defensive options.

-I can see Gohan looming in upper/mid tier...Explosive Cannon's hitbox is silly, lol, and step cancels for any charge is a really strong asset.

-19, 20, Videl and Dodoria don't feel much higher than low tier, and are likely bottom tier, IMO. They just lack solid tools to stay in the fight for long...especially Videl, who cannot super rising to save her life.

-Surprisingly, SSJ3 Broly isn't a broken mess... o_O. He hits VERY hard though.

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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by Bond on Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:15 am

Vegeta is X tier
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Post by MysticFog on Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:01 pm

20 didnt seem bad to me...havent tried 19 :/

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Post by Heromaster111 on Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:03 pm

THTB wrote:

-19, 20, Videl and Dodoria don't feel much higher than low tier, and are likely bottom tier, IMO. They just lack solid tools to stay in the fight for long...especially Videl, who cannot super rising to save her life.

Tay man why you hate man.

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Post by THTB on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:31 pm

Lol, I'm being completely honest, Hero. I was hoping Videl would play similar to her BT3 version, but that's not the case.

FKs put you at a disadvantage on hit from what I saw, which is stupid because it's her only natural combo. Her supers come out very slow, and super rising is an instant loss of half a bar of ki (Meaning you can super rising at the way beginning of the match in World Tournament stage, and she'll be helpless to catch up to you while you get a free charge to high tension), which takes that out of her arsenal for defense. She does have guard cancels, but what good is it if you don't really have anything scary while on rushdown? And her damage is complete garbage, netting ONLY 9k for a connected ultimate.

She's just not a good character at all. Sad

And Fog, Idk...it was first impressions. I know 19 was really not that good...20 has some promise I guess.

Oh, and Burter's really fun to play. He gets SS-cancels from just about any option he has, and his SS gives enough hitstun to combo to a super. Burter Pose is hot...makes using SS less of a hassle, and Afterimage don't hurt either. Smile

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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by Volienzo on Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:27 am

We need a list of characters who can naturally combo into lift kicks, sweeps, and heavy smashes/c4s. Because imo those are great tools which would put them above all those who cannot. But from my experiences with the game this is what I think of a few characters.

Yamucha-
Can combo into his c4 and his sweep. WFF is linkable after his c4 and he can follow up just about any launching attack with a spirit ball (which does pursue the opponent) that only costs half a bar of ki. Yamucha also has after image and kame. He really has a great normal setup, can combo, and a decent buff - I vote him higher than mid.

Vegeta-
Can combo into his c4, sweep, and lift kick when on the ground in base, ssj, and ssj2 forms. I *think he can combo in the air in ssj2 form, but I could be mistaken. I'm not really a fan of his sig move, but I haven't really messed around with it. He has some really nice supers, but I'm not really a fan of his default setups (minus GG and AI). I'd vote him middish.

Tien -
I've tried working with him for a while. His sig is useless, 0 damage and negative frames on hit. It has decent startup and cancels out energy attacks. But why would you ever want to use half a bar of ki to stop an attack that your opponent throws at you? You have enough options in dealing with enemy supers as it is - move out the way, wild sense, use your own super, block, deflect, and snap vanish. He doesn't need a sig to stop supers too. The only thing I haven't tested was it's hitbox when the opponent is using a rush super.

Tien cannot combo (air or ground) into his c4, sweep, or lift kick. He does have a super cancel at the end of his rush string, and he does have solar flare Very Happy. So in essence, you can do your rush string -> solar flare -> rush string -> tri-beam. His super cancel really helps him out imo, because with solar flare you can also get behind your opponent and combo your sweep and lift kicks.

Originally I would have voted him Low - but solar flare shenanigans easily bring him up to mid imo. IIRC solar flare only takes half a bar of ki.

Android 16 -
Another character I looked into for a little while. His sig rocks - a long range rolling hammer which can be followed up by his eye beam which is a long range sweep. His ground attack easily sets up for a snap vanish uppercut. But what makes him really good are his cancel points - he can cancel after his rolling hammer and after his unblockable which make him a huge threat up close.

His only weaknesses are being an android and range. He's not _that_ fast and really struggles when facing a person decent at playing keep away. Which really balances him out imo and places him around mid.

Zarbon -
Cannot combo into his c4, lift kick, or sweep. This however is offset by his good cancel point off his unblockable to either charged attacks. He can combo his sig (a quick throw)off of any charged attacks, and he can combo supers off charged ki attacks. So with this he is capable of some decent damage off of an unblockable.

His base form input super has about 6 or 7 hits and can be stopped right before the last hit giving him the ability to combo some more.

Zarbon also has a "power to the max" special that only costs 1 bar.

His damage really gets boosted in his transformed state and he gets a particularly nasty ground combo. Ground attack -> charged ki blast -> super. His comboable QTE super gets replaced by a quick three hit QTE that may let you do something after the last hit - but I haven't experimented too much with it.

Overall... He's got good supers and a second form to change things up. But, without ki he can't combo well and lacks a strong mixup game - limiting him up close. I'd have to say Zarbon is around mid as well.

So out of the characters I have experience with I would have to rank them as follows:

Yamucha
16
Vegeta
Tien / Zarbon

I want to raise Tien's place because of his super cancel point and solar flare. If only he had a stronger melee, he'd be upper/top tier material.

Yamucha probably needs a different bracket because he does have good melee, a good set of supers, and a useful sig. His ultra is pretty B.A. as well since it tracks well and can be used after just about any knockback attack.
-------------------

This is tough lol, I've never really put much into tier listings before.
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Post by THTB on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:49 pm

NC lift is very good, I agree, as is NC heavy. NC sweep is dependent on whether it recovers fast or not. With Yamcha, yeah he has NC sweep, but it has horrendous lag.

On a sidenote, Explosive Wave is probably one of the best supers in the game. Because it drains such a minimal amount of ki, if you want to apply a pressure game, want to flush out Afterimage/Wild Sense/AI Strike, or want to stop an opponent trying to super dash on you...this is a perfect tool for that, and will boost a lot of characters' spots.

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Post by Volienzo on Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:05 pm

That's cool, I'll have to look into EW a little more. I figured it was another half bar type move. All I really knew was that it can be used to block supers this time around.

I guess that's another point for #16.
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Post by THTB on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:49 pm

Btw, Super Buu has a loop combo. It works for base and base only.

HF, RH, sweep, Mystic Ball, ground attack, repeat.

It's a little over 13k damage. Talk about good stuff. Smile

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Post by Soriphen on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:21 pm

Holy shit Vol, good work!

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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by Volienzo on Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:51 am

// rewritten after some testing.

I think characters w/o super cancels ought to be lower in the tier listings seeing as super combos are the meat and potatoes of bring pain in this game.

You can combo all you like, but without a super combo - you're likely to get stuck at around 4-5k damage - unless you have a NC(naturally comboing) HS (heavy smash/gut punch).

But if that's your only way to land your super it will be predicatable and snap vanished by good players. However; characters with super cancels (especially those who can cancel after rush strings) give their opponents less opportunities to escape their supers.

Being able to cancel into a super after a rush string makes you a much greater threat. You give your opponent one chance to teleport to safety and that's from the super itself.

This imo bumps tien up above someone without such a threat. Plus his Ultimate does about 20k damage iirc...

But after further research Tien is still gimped due to not having an nc hs, so after solar flaring cancelling through someone's guard you cannot are unable to land the tri-beam. Thus keeping Tien in the middle of the tiers imo.

Well, I seem to have ranted a bit more than I intended.

I started using Cell a couple of days ago and found him to be very solid. I was unable to find a super cancel at first, but after some time I found that he doesn't need a super cancel. He can easily link his supers off of his ki cancels.

He also has the solar flare for getaway

He has access to so many great supers, so if you start in base form and are having trouble against a certain character, you can transform and change the pace and possibly counter your opponents tactics more effectively.
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Pros:

He's got life drain

He's got a taunt!

He can link into his ultra in most forms

Has access to the best supers

Has easy links

*He has natural lift, sweep, and hs combos

He has something for everyone

Cons:

1st form powers up slowly

Combos rely on positioning and form (not really a con...)

Can't detransform?
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Overall I'd have to place him somewhere between High and Top tier... he has a lot of potential, but he doesn't feel broken. Due in part by not being a cancel God like some characters... He can however combo you for a long time (3 full rush combos).

.
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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by THTB on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:20 am

I agree. Super cancels are huge. Also, being able to super cancel on a character with EW is big...it's a HUGE anti-autovanish tool.

Argh, we need Nauske, Zetachi, Malving and everyone else to post their findings!

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Post by Soriphen on Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:58 pm

Whoa...there are MOAR RB folks? Jeez Tay, bring them over here Very Happy!! This site must become everything DBZ LOL.

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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by THTB on Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:27 pm

Time for an early list maybe?


S Tier:
Piccolo
Kid Buu
Goku [Base]
Krillin

A+ Tier:
Gogeta
Vegito [Super]
Super Buu [Base]
Sword Trunks [Super Saiyan]
Frieza [Final Form]
Cell [Perfect]
Gohan [Super Saiyan 2]

A-C Tier:
Everyone not in D

D Tier:
Android 19
Videl

At least that's what I see. I still need to play everyone fully.

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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by THTB on Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:10 pm

Current list by Nauske.


Top Tier
Goku/Piccolo
Teen Gohan
Gogeta

High Tier
Goten
Kid Buu
Krillin
Cell
Vegito
Adult Gohan
SSJ3 Vegeta
Majin Vegeta
Kid Trunks

Mid Tier
Frieza
Scouter Vegeta
Vegeta
Bardock
Kid Gohan
Super Buu
Android 17
Android 18
Android 16
Sword Trunks
Zarbon
Tien
SSJ3 Broly
Captain Ginyu
Guldo
Burter
Jeice
Broly
Gotenks

Low Tier
Yamcha
Android 20
Future Trunks
Majin Buu
Raditz
Chiaotzu
Videl
Recoome
Nappa


Bottom Tier
Dodoria
Android 19

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RB Tier Discussion Empty Re: RB Tier Discussion

Post by Souless on Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:40 am

Note: To create a fair and competitive environment, the following items are considered banned for this Tier List:

Random Vanishing
Random Ki Deflect
Random Throw Deflect
Armor
Heavy Armor

Z
Super Gogeta

A
Kid Buu
Teen Gohan
Goku
Piccolo
Vegito
Majin Vegeta
Goten
Krillin

B
Vegeta
SSJ3 Vegeta
Cell
Kid Trunks
Android #16
Frieza
Bardock
Super Buu

C
Adult Gohan
Captain Ginyu
Android #17/Android #18
Broly
SSJ3 Broly
Burter
Trunks (Sword)
Trunks (Fighting Teen)
Gotenks
Majin Buu
Jeice
Chiaotzu
Zarbon
Guldo

D
Yamcha
Dr. Gero
Scouter Vegeta
Kid Gohan
Raditz
Tien

E
Android #19
Videl
Nappa
Dodoria
Recoome
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