Tier List Discussion 2.0

God Tier
Piccolo

Top Tier
Cell
Bardock/Sword Trunks
Kid Buu/Future Trunks/Krillin

High Tier
Broly
Vegeta
Future Gohan
Pikkon
Uber Goku/Vegetto

Upper Mid
Super Buu/Balanced Piccolo
Janemba

Mid Tier
Adult Gohan
Android 18
Freeza
Dabura
Fat Buu

Low Tier
Gogeta
Goku
Teen Gohan
Gotenks

Bottom Tier
Cooler

This is what I was able to come up with this past school year. Rankings within the tiers are so close that
it may as well be just a big tie. Two new characters were added, for more info on them,
check thier respective Character topics. I'll describe the main changes:

Cell-moved him all the way up to Top Tier. Cell was almost unanimously considered mid before,
being praised for his nearly untouchable defensive game. However with the discovery of advanced
Ki cancels, his somewhat average rushdown game became "Perfect". He has almost too many ways
to rushdown, you'll almost never know what he's going to do. On top of that, he still has his old
defensive game as well, making him second best only to Piccolo.

Kid Buu/Krillin-Moved Kid Buu up and Krillin down. Kid Buu being in Upper Mid before didn't feel
right at all, he was essentially Krillin but with a better starter and argueably worse deathmoves.
The more I played Kid Buu, the more I figured he was a re-skinned Krillin[lol Tenkaichi 3].
From damage, to ki building, to overall rushdown, they were even pretty much. As such, I moved Kid Buu up to Top Tier with Krillin.

Adult Gohan- Up to mid. He's here simply because his Knee starter isn't as bad
as the other Son's. He can actually get a decent juggle off of it, albeit at close
range, but the fact that he can combo off it at all puts him above alot. Armed
with more or less the same chains as Teen Gohan, he takes his defensive game
and does it better. Overall, he's a solid fighter.

Janemba Down, Super Buu up-Janemba goes down because of the margin for error in his
combos. He has just enough stun in his sword cancels to pull of a combo, so even
a small screw-up will mess up your whole combo. He certainly isn't bad by any
definition, but to play him effectively, you have to play him perfectly.

Super Buu goes up because of his all around effectiveness. His

Aside from the fact that this is based on loltheoryshinbudokai, the tier list looks actually alright. Cell, Broly and Bardock are questionable though....Not too big a difference but Cell shouldn't be up there because even though he's supremely good in just about anything...He still has below avg overall priority and below avg overall dmg. I think Cell should be at the bottom of the top tier list because Krillin has a size factor and much better priority and good dmg to boot, along with the fact that he has an awesome way to beat out Cell's rushdown with his /\S and he could ki cancel as well as Cell too (just not as much usage but zoning and shit). Bardock is insane with his >E approach and his overall priority is awesome...especially his damage.

Actually, Cell should be at the top of the high tier list and Broly should be at the bottom of the top tier. Broly because his way of approach is good too with an Aura Burst <E beating literally everything and leaving the opponent right in front of him. His overall priority and dmg is insane too and his other approach of >>S- is insane for nullifying attacks and closing distance. From there, I think everything is awesome. Good shit bro .

Meh, I played this with 2 dozen other people, it's not like other fighters were you have millions of people playing them, so inacuracies are there. Anyways thanks.

It's not that you had people to play with, rather, they probably aren't as good and adhoc always has delay, meaning, it ain't gonna let you play at full potential. I don't mean online as well lol. Online is much worse ugh.

Janemba Down, Super Buu up-Janemba goes down because of the margin for error in his
combos. He has just enough stun in his sword cancels to pull of a combo, so even
a small screw-up will mess up your whole combo. He certainly isn't bad by any
definition, but to play him effectively, you have to play him perfectly.

Execution is no valid argument to place a character lower in a tier list. A tier list by definition is when a character is played to it's fullest potential, even if his combos are tough to do, you can still do them.

I don't wanna offend you or anything, i don't own the game so i don't know what he's capable off, but the questions you should ask yourself is:

Did he lose priority? DMG nerfed? Mobility/speed whatever nerfed? Combo starters reduced? If all of them don't apply then there is no reason to place him lower except the fact that other chars might have improved so much that they just got better than him.

This reminds me of Cap not putting GTV in Top tier because he is difficult to use...quite silly really.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AkOCnfkQ4mX6dGc3MzJ2emtkcTZvVlR5Z042OFp1WkE&hl=en&output=html

Brohan's Matchup Chart excluding B-Pic and U-Goku.

Honestly, a lot of this stuff could change if SB all of a sudden becomes played more offline.

Wow I never thought Budokai was about matchups, lots of 2-8 matchups I see.

Oddly enough it can be.

But it wouldn't surprise me if the list is wildly inaccurate.

OH MY FUCKING GOD! >RSS INTERRUPTS PICCOLO"S SSS IF TIMED RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This tier list just flipped upside down, if I can get this to happen enough, Son family will at least move up a
tier or two, AT LEAST.

Yo tay what are the tiers colored by?

They're colored by win percentages.

Every 5% is a new tier. 5% = 12 points. On that note, updated list:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AkOCnfkQ4mX6dGc3MzJ2emtkcTZvVlR5Z042OFp1WkE&hl=en&output=html

Code:

S+: Piccolo
A+: Broly, Bardock
A:  Sword Trunks, Future Trunks, Kid Buu, Krillin
B+: Vegeta, Cell, Vegito, Future Gohan, Pikkon
B:  Super Buu, Gohan, Android 18
C:  Janemba, Frieza, Dabura
D:  Majin Buu, Gogeta, Goku, Teen Gohan
E:  Gotenks
F:  Cooler

Also, that doesn't surprise me that happens. Nnamz said it before...R chains are much better than originally anticipated. If this game were currently in the hands of a lot of people competitively, getting >RSS to interrupt Piccolo's SSS would be a commonplace at high level play.

Did it again, puts Piccolo in a juggle state where goku can juggle with RRRRE- a couple times

Nice. This is stuff I'd like to see discovered. I think all R chains need to be re-evaluated, because stuff like this can generally shake up a tier list completely.

Update: You can also combo Dragon Fist Explosion, but it's a really fast cancel, you have to do it right after Piccolo hits the juggle state, if this is how it's gonna go with all R attacks, Balanced Piccolo may become a reality, using SSS is almost asking for free damage now, and without uber zoning skills, Piccolo isn't that good at all IMO, way too slow and straight forward, no mixup ect. I'm willing to bet everyone with an >RSS indentical to Goku's framewise is gonna be top tier.

Man, I'd take this much more seriously if it wasn't based on adhoc play. Anything with 2-3 frames of input delay means you should take it with a grain of salt. It's pretty much theory budokai another theory, no offence.

Sori, Brohan actually has local opponents.

Tay...I said adhoc play, not infrastructure. I know he has local opponents but that's the problem with SBAR on psp. There's 2-3 frames of delay or more even when playing adhoc. I've tried it with multiple people and different psps and there's never less than 2-3 frames of input delay. That's the reason why I hate SBAR multiplayer because even adhoc isn't handled well.

Oh...well shit LOL. WTF.

lmao I sound so damn cynical....BROHAN U KEEP THE SBAR SPIRIT ALIVE SON!

He has to Sori, and he has to make all the tier lists because you steal tier lists from somewhere else

Fuckin' lol

EvilBrohan wrote:OH MY FUCKING GOD! >RSS INTERRUPTS PICCOLO"S SSS IF TIMED RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This tier list just flipped upside down, if I can get this to happen enough, Son family will at least move up a
tier or two, AT LEAST.

A lot of rushes or fash S's (18's for example) can interrupt Piccolo's S (as well as many other characters S's).

The problem is getting in close enough to do it in the first place. And at his max comboing range you're out of range to hit his hitbox with Slams or Rushes. Dash ins can be punished with S's.

From close range Piccolo can change up to <SS which has disgusting prority and some good options.

And trying to interupt his S with rushes is generally not a good risk vs reward to begin with. If he's at full Ki he can teleport if you manage to interupt it. If he manages to land it, he can simply go right into his ultimate off of 1 S, watch you lose 1300 health, then charge back up to 5 bars before you even get back up and do it again.

Piccolo's S's range and priority are scary, but it's his options after it which are most scary about that move. Piccolo can viably defeat you without ever giving you a chance to TC even though you had the ki to do so. He's ridiculous. Hellzone Grenade should have never been in this game.

Wow, my penor just shrunk, thanks guys.....

You know what fuk this game, I should be drawing, or doin homework.